Unlocking The Power of Caffeine
For Performance with David Hellard

The 5 AM Miracle Podcast, hosted by Jeff Sanders

Episode #576: Unlocking The Power of Caffeine For Performance with David Hellard

Jeff Sanders
How many coffees is too many? One, two, six, twelve? Asking for a friend, I swear. This is the 5 a.m. Miracle, episode number 576, unlocking the power of caffeine for performance with David Hellard. Good morning and welcome to the 5 a.m. Miracle. I am Jeff Sanders and this is the podcast dedicated to dominating your day before breakfast. My goal is to help you bounce out of bed with enthusiasm, create powerful lifelong habits, and tackle your grandest goals with extraordinary energy. I am a keynote speaker and corporate trainer, specializing in delivering high energy, interactive, and action-oriented presentations and workshops, focused on productivity, wellness, and personal and professional growth. If you want to learn more, head over to jeffsanders.com slash speaking. Now, the episode this week, I will chat with David Hellard. David is an ultramarathon runner, podcaster, and founder of Caffeine Bullet, an innovative energy chew designed to enhance focus, endurance, and performance. In our conversation, David and I chat about the power of caffeine to affect our athletic performance and productivity, and how L-Theanine can be combined with caffeine for a highly effective dose of sustained energy. Let's dig in.

David Hellard
Oh, thanks so much for having me. And I know I'm not in Nashville and just you are. But the fact that I know you're in Nashville, it's with excitement is giving me flashbacks to some really happy towns I've had in America.

Jeff Sanders
Yeah, that's great. Nashville is a great town. It's fun to live here. People definitely like visiting. So I'm glad you enjoyed it as well. In terms of today's conversation, we're going to talk basically about things. that I personally love, and I know you do as well, everything from caffeine to podcasting itself to running to personal life hacking, any and all these things are topics I love to discuss. And I want our audience to get a sense a little more of your backstory. And let's actually begin with the running ultramarathon angle. I ran a bunch of ultramarathons about 10 years ago. I've slowed down my pace since then. So I've got a history of this, and I know why I love to do those things. But I want to hear your story with these as well, as especially what got you interested initially into endurance sports itself?

David Hellard
Well, running was my first route in, and that was when I was 27 or so I'd split up with a girlfriend, started putting on weight, didn't want moves, and thought it was the easiest way, basically, to keep the weight off. But I've always, I've loved competition, but actually, I've never been that structured in my life. And I found that running was something that I really enjoyed the fact it gave you back what you put in. And I found I was reasonably good at it. And so I love the fact I could train hard and get results and see improvements. And so for a number of years, I was competing and got into obstacle racing as the growing sport as it was kind of mid-teens. and then discovered ultra running. And what I loved about it was, it's partly the, you get to see so much of the world. And the races are so, there's such big experiences. Having done a lot of road marathons or races for times, going to an ultra is so different because you don't really know what to expect, but also you're not being judged on the same terms. It's about, um, people want to know about the war stories, more than anything else. But I loved the fact that I could push my body for a long time. And at the end of it, just have such a feeling of satisfaction and also discover new things about yourself. And so unlike road running, which I had really enjoyed and had given me a lot of structure and helped me learn really how to focus and how to actually not only prioritized, but properly. Well, a trail running and not to running, instead of just giving me that structure, it just opening up to just falling in love of nature and falling in love with being active.

Jeff Sanders
Yeah, I mean, that's definitely what draws me in as well. I mean, I prefer running the trails. And luckily in Nashville, we've got some decent hills nearby where I can run outdoors and not do the road running component. Do you think that's your preference is to be off the road and kind of in nature?

David Hellard
Well, I still live in London. So I do a lot of running. Now that I've got a young baby, a 14 month old, the vast majority of my running is commuting or else it's kind of training in a local park. And so for me, it's not just about the terrain. It's about whether you can have a mental escape. And you can do that in a city sometimes. And quite often, And actually some runs I've loved is, but tonight I'm going to see some friends for an investment club, but I'll run through town. And running fast through traffic, I find immensely enjoyable because you still got that rush, as if you're running down trail. But it's amazing how even in a place like London, which is built up, it's got millions of people, you can still have these really private moments and really connect with your surrounding and nature in ways that you just can't if you're not running really. Even in walking, I don't think you get exposed to the surprises and the shocks and the turning the corner moments you get from running. Absolutely. If I can get out running trail, that's the preference. And I've been lucky enough to commentate and to present around the world on some of the biggest trail races. but you can still have the, just that complete connection of nature and the disconnection with the insanity of life, just around the corner from you, no matter

Jeff Sanders
where you are. Yeah, that's so true. I love the surprise element of running definitely as part of that. How much so I guess today is running part of your life? You sound like you're running for your commute. I mean, is running like a daily activity for you? or how much involved are you with running today?

David Hellard
Probably the least I have been in the last 20 years, but that's just because of having a young child. I mean, in terms of my life, rather than the running itself, running is my business now. I've had a podcast for 10 years. I speak around the world. I'm a sports commentator for trail running. But in terms of me, being a runner, I probably only run three or four times a week. I'll run into work every day, so I'll run a mile each way. So at least I've done something. But I'd probably only do three or four runs a week, which may sound like a lot. But given that I for maybe 10 years was averaging 70 -mile weeks, getting up to 120-mile weeks, I'm probably now at the 25-mile mark, 20-mile mark. And it's not what I'd want if I had a wish list, but it's what I am. absolutely prioritising as all I am having now because I'm just choosing to spend more time with my family. And it's strange that I do need running to, as I mentioned, that mental escape and just to feel healthy but I find even with 20 miles a week I can do some good sessions, I can find my sanity and I'd much rather this year and next actually spend that time to support the family and hanging out with my son because I can run afterwards and I'm getting what I need from running right now. And I'm sure in four or five years time when life's a bit more settled, then I'll get back racing and exploring, having those adventures I've had throughout my life.

Jeff Sanders
Yeah, I feel like, I mean, I just kind of exited that stage myself. I've got two young girls. My youngest is now three. And I'm just now kind of getting out of that stage. So I can now get out more to your point you just made. It's like that, yeah, there's a season of life where you have young kids. were, but they're the focus, which makes total sense. I mean, in terms of that, obviously running is one of your kind of primary healthy habits. Do you have other healthy habits that you try to prioritize to just keep yourself kind of, you know, feeling your best? To be honest, I'm in some ways

David Hellard
I live at some elements of my life very unhealthily. But I find running seems to be the my catch-all. Other than that, I just make sure that I've always got plenty of healthy snacks. on hands, whether they're carrots or pickled gherkins or, you know, olives or just food to hand wherever I am that I know I can eat fresh fruit and veg without a huge amount of inconvenience. But the strange thing is having a baby in some ways means I'm more tired than ever, but actually it's forced me into more of a routine. So previously I've had a wildlife at times, but now I'm, you know, I'm not a 5 am. waker, but I certainly am a 6 to 6.30 waker because when Hercules wakes up and I've, I can't remember a year or I've been to bed more frequently before 10.30 than this year. So while I'm not always getting quality sleep, I'm in bed for the hours of more hours than I've possibly ever been.

Jeff Sanders
Yep, I hear you there. I know what that feels like for sure. I definitely want to talk today about the work that you're doing with caffeine bullet and specifically the supplement that I have just tried yesterday for the first time, the brain bullets. And I think that that product plays into this kind of bigger conversation of the use of caffeine when it comes to productivity, healthy habits, athletic activity. How do you view the use of supplements and I guess stimulants in that sense in terms of kind of optimal performance? Like, do you view it as a necessity or is it a nice to have? Like, where does it fit into your realm of the use of those kinds of, you know, caffeine or other submilates?

David Hellard
Yeah, good question. And the fact you alluded to that it's not necessarily. only always positive. I think it's really important. Caffeine is a drug. It's a strong drug. Now, I think as a society, we almost underestimate its power. And it's not for everyone. Some people actually slow down on caffeine. Some people, it's not good for. And 8% of a meta study that was taken, it was showed that 8% of people react too slowly to caffeine and so you should cut it out of their life. And I think instinctively those people know who they are from when they try to coffee or an energy drink and how they respond. But the caffeine is a drug that is so prevalent in our society that we almost use it frequently as a daily crutch. And the more we use caffeine, the less powerful it is. So we have to have it in larger doses, which then leads to less sleep, more stress and actually become self-defeating. Or we, as we recommend, if you use it just when you need it, it can be a really powerful ally. It's the one performance enhancing drug that really makes a difference. They tried to ban it because it's it really is that powerful. But because it's so prevalent in our society in chocolate, in coffee, in cakes, they realized that banning it was just going to become too difficult because people would be taking on caffeine without realizing it. And how do you stamp out something that is just throughout a supply chain? So we're very much. of the messaging that use caffeine for its powers, but do it intentionally. And that way, the less caffeine you have, you need less to get more of an impact. And we introduced products initially because I needed it when I was racing, and it really helped in sport. But actually, the power of caffeine is not just in reducing pain and increasing endurance, but it does improve alertness, increases in creativity, increases focus, all these elements that are so useful for day-to-day performance. And actually, for many people, it's a shortcut to motivation. And that's one of the struggles of life is getting focus and attention and finding the motivation to do the things we know we should. And caffeine can be of support in that.

Jeff Sanders
So then in terms, let's say the use in athletic performance, if you're out for a run, like do you prefer to have it like on a longer run and help like push through? the difficult moments, or is it more of an enhancer for you just kind of enjoy the run more? Like, how do you view it in terms of the kind of the athletic side of things?

David Hellard
I see, it depends partly where I am in my training, but also my need. So if I was training hard and I'd use it in racing to just be faster and to improve my endurance. So I'd tend to use it in the second half of races, of longer races, or say I was running 5Ks, 10Ks, then I'd have some caffeine before. and during. But now that I'm running less frequently, I'll use it if I'm extending the range of what I'm doing and have it in my back pocket for in case I'm a bit tired on a long run. But typically when I train, I'll do two hard sessions. One of them will be a tempo session. It's called when you're a threshold session, when you're trying to hold a pace for as long as possible. And I'll have one during that because it partly takes the fear out of that session, but it means that I know that I can actually finish faster than when I start. And interval sessions are the other ones where you take a shorter chunk of distance and you try and run that quicker, repeated number of times. But I won't always use caffeine because part of training is about actually getting your mind ready for suffering. And so if you're always taking caffeine and always making it faster, make yourself faster and making the session easier, actually you're going to lose some of that mental resilience. So, you know, I do mix it up. And there are other times as well where, you know, I've had injuries through the years or sometimes I've just worked late and it's suddenly dark and wet. I can't be bothered to do the training I want to do. And that's when I reach for caffeine to just get me pumped up so that I will actually do the session, knowing that if I hadn't had that caffeine at that point, the chances are I'd have probably had a cup of tea, maybe started reading a paper, and before you know it, your motivation's gone, the session's gone, and it's so easy for that to happen.

Jeff Sanders
I like how you're intentional about the use of it, because it really sounds like, to your point you just made, it's not something you're just consuming it all day, every day, all the time, because it could then backfire, but instead, using it on purpose when it's best to use it, which I feel like for a lot of people, that's a skill, kind of an adaptation to shift into, because I think our default is just to your point, we just consume it all the time.

David Hellard
Yeah, absolutely. And I do have decaf coffee. I have decaf tea. And it's not as nice as as normal coffee or normal tea. But it's a choice I've made. And now I don't notice the difference. But one of the challenges with caffeine is that, it blocks receptors in the brain which then stop a chemical called adenocene attaching to the brain and it's when that chemical attaches to the brain that we feel tired now if you take caffeine regularly your brain wants to know it's tired when it is tired because that's how it signals that it needs rest and you get to sleep which is a good thing for you and so if you repeatedly use caffeine it starts to increase the number of that are in your brain. So actually that one cup of coffee that used to make you feel energized, that no longer is enough to stop adenocene attaching to your brain and making you feel sleepy. And so if you're not careful about your coffee use, you'll have more and more coffee. And the more coffee you have, it then takes longer for that to get out of your system. And so that will disrupt your sleep at night. And if you're then not sleeping well, you're going to wake up tired. But, not only you're waking up time, but you need a stronger coffee to get back to the point where you were. So actually, a lot of people are relying on coffee to feel as energized as they were before they had any coffee. And if you, and so that's one of the vicious cycles that some people can be in where they'll have a coffee to get themselves waking up, but then have a coffee after lunch and maybe one late afternoon to stop with the slump. And actually, completely cutting out caffeine, you'll probably feel better than being in that cycle. And it then means when you do have that race or that training session you want to perform well in, or in a late night's study session that you need to do or a paper you need to finish or something like that. When you reach for the caffeine at that stage, that one coffee, that one chew is going to have so much more impact. And that means you don't need to have quite as much. and so it's less likely to then interrupt your sleep, but also you're not then going to be caught in that vicious cycle.

Jeff Sanders
Yeah, I mean, I think for a lot of people, the idea of cutting back on caffeine or cutting it out to your point of actually feeling better might sound a bit, you know, challenging because I think we do find ourselves addicted to that daily consumption. I know I've been there, and I've had moments in my life where I've taken a break, and it is revealing. You really do figure out what these tendencies are and to, yeah, to find the right balance and to kind of seasonally shift as needed. And there's definitely an intentionality piece here that is needed by a lot of

David Hellard
people. Yeah. And it's so part of our culture. And one of the challenges is coffee is lovely. And it's a really nice, it's a really social drink as well and quite comforting. It genuinely is comforting it. When you have caffeine, it actually releases endorphines, You're more likely to like whoever you're with when you're having a coffee. It's got all these benefits that we don't necessarily realize. And it just becomes a choice where it's not wrong to have a coffee every day and enjoy it. But it's just about whether you want to really optimize caffeine or whether you're using it just for something that's pleasurable. And ultimately, it's down to everyone to decide, is this a net positive or negative in my life? And how much do I need caffeine to improve my performance? And because I was competing at quite a high level, for me, it made absolute sense to cut all caffeine out in my life other than to aid in my training and my racing, but not ever wanted that situation. And similarly, there are some times when I just need to get so much work done or I really need to be able to intensely focus because without caffeine, I might not be as productive. And I just, I don't have enough time in the day anymore now that I've got a young child and various businesses. But not everyone's in that situation. Yeah, and to define that balance is powerful.

Jeff Sanders
I want to hear more of the story of the brain bullets themselves, mostly because I tried it for the first time yesterday. And it was one of the few supplements that I've ever had where I didn't get what kind of these stimulants tend to do for me, which is kind of sends me over the end. edge where I might feel, you know, anxiety or paranoia or jitters or all of those kind of negative side effects of, you know, pushing beyond what your body can really handle. And when I had this, I didn't have that experience. And I'd like to hear more about kind of what the product actually is and how it works, because I think that there's definitely something here that has a lot of potential for, like, a healthier use of caffeine itself.

David Hellard
Yeah, because, I mean, the caffeine basically triggers adrenaline and course. to soul. And both of those chemicals are amazing for sport. One's the fight or flight response. One's the stress hormone. And so they raise your heart rate and they increase blood flow and various other things. They release fat cells into the bloodstream. All these things are amazing for sport. But if you're trying to focus, that's actually quite frustrating. If you're sat there, your heart's ripping out of your chest. and it does increase anxiety as well. And so what we've done is it turns out that L-thene, which is an active component from green tea, can match your green tea, that is a natural, it's called a non-drowsy sedative. And so it's a natural relaxant. It reduces stress, reduces anxiety by increasing alpha brainwaves. And so when those two have been combined, studies have shown that not only does it reduce the impact of caffeine and spiking your heart rate, but actually it's been shown to reduce the impact of caffeine, reducing your sleep as well. It's on its own, it does increase relaxation to improve sleep. And with caffeine, it looks like it actually counteracts the negative impacts of caffeine. And so we've taken caffeine bullet, which was created purely for sport, and we've just blended it with a two to one ratio, althene to caffeine, to try and basically match the science of these studies. So not only do you get the impact of the chew, which means it's absorbed while you're chewing kicks faster, but you should have a smoother, more prolonged state of, alertness. So you can keep all the benefits of caffeine, but also you can then add in the benefits of altheneanine for focus, creativity and intention.

Jeff Sanders
And this sounds like a phenomenal use of a supplement for a study session, a productivity session, kind of the hardcore focus that's necessary when you're doing your best work. I know I tend to, when I want to do my best work, I have my focus blocks of time. I have in the past, and probably still today, I've got a slow drip of a coffee. So I'm just like chug it real fast and get to work. I'll intentionally slow play it over the course of a couple of hours to kind of keep myself going. But it sounds like this, you know, supplement actually kind of helps with that process to keep you in that zone for a while.

David Hellard
Yeah, absolutely, because I mean, the way caffeine works is you, caffeine has something called a half life where it's the amount of time for the total amount of caffeine in your system to reduce by half. And so caffeine half life tends to be four to five hours, which is why we can be tired late at night. Because if you have a coffee in the morning of say 100 milligrams, a coffee at lunchtime, 100 milligrams and a coffee late afternoon, by the evening, you're still going to have about 75 milligrams of caffeine depending on how quickly you metabolize caffeine. So you're going to sleep with caffeine in your system. By having althenin in there, it means that you, it actually, elthenein has got a longer tail than caffeine, and so you can have that relaxed focus, even when the caffeine starts to drift down. So studies are showing that the two together can, can actually mean that you have extended focus rather than the spike that caffeine tends to give.

Jeff Sanders
So it's kind of like having a black coffee and a green tea mixed together. Yeah.

David Hellard
Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, it's similar to that. I mean, we did look at matcha chews by themselves, but the ratio of caffeine in al-thene in matcher is one to two, one-part matcher, two-parts caffeine, whereas actually scientific studies have suggested that it should be two to one, althenin to caffeine, but also to get a decent dose of althenein. Studies have also suggested that you need at least 100 milligrams of caffeine. Sorry, of althene. And so if you're having something like match a green tea, you'd therefore need 100 milligrams of althenein, which would give you 200 milligrams of caffeine. And that's a lot of caffeine to be consumed. me. You know, that's the same as, say, a can of monster. In fact, more than that, it's like a can of prime. And for most people, unless they're doing sport, that's a huge amount to be taking on.

Jeff Sanders
Yeah, I mean, the kind of the overconsumption of caffeine in that sense is definitely kind of the thing to avoid. Do you have, I mean, to your point about sleep, do you have a cutoff time in the day for you taking caffeine? I know I, years ago, basically held myself off from any caffeine. after my lunch period. So around noon is my personal cutoff time, just to make sure I can get sleep. The only exception I have to that is maybe a green tea later in the day. Do you kind of view caffeine as that where it's more of a morning beverage than later on?

David Hellard
It actually depends on what your DNA is. So we fit into three different camps where, as I mentioned earlier, about 8% of people process caffeine very slowly. Those people probably shouldn't take caffeine at any point, because it could keep them awake for hours, and they might not receive any benefit. There's 42% of people who respond above placebo effect, and then there's 50% of people that actually process it very quickly. Now, those 50% of people, they may be able to take it and still go to sleep in an hour or two. But rather than having hard and fast rules, it actually depends on how you've already absorbed caffeine. So if you had this hard rule that you don't have anything, past, say, 1 o'clock, if you'd had a caffeine, a coffee for breakfast and then a coffee at lunch, you'd still have half of the caffeine from that breakfast coffee in your system. So that's why it may still affect your sleep, because it's not just a coffee at lunchtime that's going to be impacting on your sleep. It's the two combined. So we actually have another product called Ginger Rawls, which is a third of a coffee, a ginger chews made from five natural ingredients with caffeine added. And there are a smaller amount where those are good for a little top-up if you don't want a massive dose. But actually, if you're wanting to use the benefit of caffeine later in the day, having nothing before you, having an empty stomach to caffeine so far that day means that when you do take the caffeine, it's less likely to interrupt your sleep because you're not building on caffeine already in the system. if that makes sense.

Jeff Sanders
Yeah. So are you arguing here that having caffeine on empty stomach is, that's more effective in that sense?

David Hellard
Not an empty stomach, sorry, an empty caffeine stomach as such. So if you, oh, okay. Yeah, if you, if you think of yourself, your, your three o'clock coffee, you may already have 75 milligrams of caffeine in your system, or you might have no caffeine in your system. And you keep on layering this caffeine through the day. and when you get to bed, it's not about your most recent coffee. It's about the total caffeine still in your system. And so if you know you've got a late night or you really think you need to use caffeine or want to use caffeine, the longer you've cut caffeine out before that, the less likely you are to have a build up in your system, which means that caffeine is the only one that your body's going to contend with. Gotcha. That makes a lot more sense.

Jeff Sanders
Yeah. I mean, once again, I think this really just points to the idea of knowing yourself really well and building an intentional plan for the use of caffeine. And to your point before, that caffeine's in a lot of things, a lot of things we consume have it. And so the use of it being intentional, that's a big deal. Is there anything else about caffeine or performance that we should know about to really kind of optimize our day? I feel like we've hit good stuff here. But, you know, in case there's more I've missed, I'd love to know. Some of it is,

David Hellard
as you said, it's very independent on who you are because we are also different. If you smoke, for example, that has been shown to reduce the half-life of coffee, of coffee, sorry, of caffeine by half. So if you have a four-hour half-life, if you smoke, that then cuts it to two hours. If you're on the pill, we'll extend it. And so actually all these rules are so changeable based on your. lifestyle and other chemicals and things that are interplaying with your system. But it's also worth bearing in mind that the way we consume caffeine also then changes things as well. So if you have a chew or you have a strip of caffeine or something similar, that allows a caffeine to be absorbed in your mouth or under your tongue or down your throat. And so something like a caffeine bullet, a brain bullet, that will enter the system directly into the bloodstream and start a kick in five minutes. peak in 20, 25 minutes. Whereas if you're having pills or drinks, that's absorbed through your stomach. And so it takes longer to be absorbed. It also means the absorption period is longer as well. And so for some people, that's better. They'd rather have this slower absorption rate. And when they have the coffee now, they know in an hour's time, they'll be starting to peak. And so that then impacts on the half-life because if you're having strips, caffeine stripped if you're having caffeine shoes. I think there's even a caffeine snooos now in Scandinavia. That is absorbed so much faster and the half-life of the caffeine starts then. And so actually it's less likely to interrupt your sleep. Whereas if you're wanting something that is going to be lasting longer than something that's absorbed through your stomach is more likely to the absorption period is longer and therefore the half-right. starts later. It's a little bit detailed, but hopefully that makes sense to the listener.

Jeff Sanders
Oh, yeah, and there's definitely, I mean, to your point about the absorption rate, that I definitely experienced that, you know, coffee is different than a supplement, different than a chew. And I think it's really important to know kind of your preference on the speed you want the caffeine to kind of kick in. And I know that, you know, my preference would be a slower absorption rate in general, mostly because I don't enjoy kind of spiking the caffeine and I want to feel out of control with it. So yeah, I think really figuring out how to use these and when and how it affects you. Yeah, it's all a very like important, intentional self-awareness game. But it's one that's worth testing because you can get kind of these, you know, great performance benefits we've

David Hellard
talked about. And there's some real lot of teas out there as well. We're currently doing a study with ADHD because, obviously, one of the big challenge of ADHD is, is focus. But it turns out that some people, when they use caffeine, instead of it being a stimulant for them, some people with ADHD, it actually calms them down. And so we've seen with ADHD medicine where people are taking drugs such as retin, that they're almost microdocusing speed. And that is the thing that calms and down and gives them clarity. And it seems with some individuals, that seems to also be the case of caffeine. And so while there are these rules, and this advice I can give you, it's really up to the individual to try it out and see what works for them because we are all so different. And the body has got so many processes that all interact with each other that it's impossible to actually predict how caffeine will work for every person on earth.

Jeff Sanders
Very true. Very true. David, this has been fantastic. I've really learned a lot here and enjoyed this discussion. I'm a huge fan of running, of caffeine, of productivity, all these things mixed together is fantastic. And I would love our listeners to learn more about you and your company and the things that you have going on now. So where can they learn more from you and dig into the caffeine bullets and rain bullets? So learning about me,

David Hellard
I do have a podcast, Bad Boy Running, but it's probably more about me than you'd ever want to know. It's very silly, more of a journal. But we do interview a lot of the best nutritionists, runners, and the biggest stories from running around the world. But Caffein Bullet is just Caffeinbullet.com. And as a company, we're all about trying to energize the world to an active and healthy lifestyle. So we've created lots of blogs to try and explain how to use caffeine. And our socials are about trying to empower people to actually make good life's choices and to know how they can perform better in sports, but in life in general. But also we're a company where if people want to, people have got questions or have product ideas that they want to develop, just get in touch because we're genuinely here trying to help everyone in whichever way we can. And so if there is a need out there for a new product or a new idea, then we'd love to help you develop that, basically.

Jeff Sanders
That is excellent. I love that. Yeah. The bad boy running podcast sounds like a fantastic fit for anybody who loves running and learning more about you. And yeah, caffeinebullet.com. This is great stuff. David, thank you very much to be a guest in the podcast. This has been awesome to learn more about all of these great things. And, yeah, thanks again. My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me, Jeff. And for that action step this week. Of course, go try David's Caffeine Bullets for yourself. If you'd like, you can use my affiliate link, jeffsanders.com slash caffeine bullets. And you can also test how caffeine affects your performance by testing everything. Add more or take a break. Try green tea versus coffee. or test a supplement at just the right time to boost your performance when you need it most. Of course, subscribe to this podcast in your favorite podcast app or become a VIP member of the 5 a.m. Miracle community, but get the premium ad-free version with exclusive bonus episodes at 5am MiraclePremium.com. Yes, I've had my caffeine today. Okay, that's all I've gone for you here on the 5am Miracle podcast this week. Until next time, you have the power to change your life. life and all that fun begins bright and early.

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